Forum
433
911 conspiracy debunked?
Originally posted by: Roy_Stewart
I can't understand how anyone can believe that the buildings were taken down without pre laid demolition charges.
Your lack of understanding of one hypothesis of building collapse does make another hypothesis correct.
Sharpen up Roy, you're quite plainly out of your depth.
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Wait For The Ricochet
^^^
can't help but insult.
right, this is going nowhere, so i'm going to check the surf.
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: Roy_Stewart
The survey records the popularity of the proposition, but this does not demonstrate the truth or falsity of the proposition, thus it is irrelevant.
So, you were either posting information which you knew to be irrelevant, or ( as seemed more likely to me ) you posted it thinking that has some relevance to the truth about 9/11, which is an invalid appeal to popularity.
Irrelevant or irrelevant with an invalid argument, either way it is irrelevant.
Your application of logic has failed you Roy. What you have done is to "read between the lines" and conclude an entirely fallicious assumption.
Lets look back, again, regrettably, in an attempt to clarify things for you.
I'll keep it brief,
I made the asserton that 85% of the worlds population don't believe the US Government was behind the events of 9/11.
Seeka disputed this and asked if I had any "Stats" to back that up
I located a page regarding opinion polls on wikipedia and and referenced it in response to his request and included a quote from it for those who couldn't be bothered going to the external link.
So, what you say is correct. The poll does not demonstrate the truth or otherwise of the responses to the question "who do you think was behind the 9/11 attacks"
But to then assert that the poll is irrelevant and that I knowingly posted it as such is a seriously flawed conclusion. And to further calim that this somehow contained an argument, invalid or otherwise, is plainly ludicrous.
Now then, lets look at what we can reasonably gain from this poll.
Of those surveyed, (and this was by no means a comprhensive poll of the worlds population, as it only included 16,000 or so repondents from only 17 countries), only 15% responded that they believed/thought the US Government was behind the 9/11 attacks.
So, you are quite right when you claim this has no bearing on the truth. It does however reveal that of those people surveyed, most believe the truth to be something other than the proposition that the US Government were responsible.
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Wait For The Ricochet
does it influence anything at all knowing the stats for how many people think something.
the majority of young people think that justin bieber is amazing.
a lot of people think lady gaga is incedible
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SNAP awards
Originally posted by: Mr Statik
I bet if you flew a 747 smack into the middle of the skytower it would fall over.... im just saying......
Yanks are full of cr@p anyway, if some hacked off islamics did it (they claimed it enough) or they did it to themselves one things for sure. Thems was the biggest pigeons i ever did see comin' home to roost....
...thats the truth my nubian brother..
Originally posted by: oldscoolOriginally posted by: Roy_Stewart
I can't understand how anyone can believe that the buildings were taken down without pre laid demolition charges.
Your lack of understanding of one hypothesis of building collapse does make another hypothesis correct.
Sharpen up Roy, you're quite plainly out of your depth.
Again you have attributed a line of reasoning to me which I haven't used.
Straw man again mate
.
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
Originally posted by: oldscoolOriginally posted by: Roy_Stewart
The survey records the popularity of the proposition, but this does not demonstrate the truth or falsity of the proposition, thus it is irrelevant.
So, you were either posting information which you knew to be irrelevant, or ( as seemed more likely to me ) you posted it thinking that has some relevance to the truth about 9/11, which is an invalid appeal to popularity.
Irrelevant or irrelevant with an invalid argument, either way it is irrelevant.
Your application of logic has failed you Roy. What you have done is to "read between the lines" and conclude an entirely fallicious assumption.
Lets look back, again, regrettably, in an attempt to clarify things for you.
I'll keep it brief,
I made the asserton that 85% of the worlds population don't believe the US Government was behind the events of 9/11.
Seeka disputed this and asked if I had any "Stats" to back that up
I located a page regarding opinion polls on wikipedia and and referenced it in response to his request and included a quote from it for those who couldn't be bothered going to the external link.
So, what you say is correct. The poll does not demonstrate the truth or otherwise of the responses to the question "who do you think was behind the 9/11 attacks"
But to then assert that the poll is irrelevant and that I knowingly posted it as such is a seriously flawed conclusion. And to further calim that this somehow contained an argument, invalid or otherwise, is plainly ludicrous.
Now then, lets look at what we can reasonably gain from this poll.
Of those surveyed, (and this was by no means a comprhensive poll of the worlds population, as it only included 16,000 or so repondents from only 17 countries), only 15% responded that they believed/thought the US Government was behind the 9/11 attacks.
So, you are quite right when you claim this has no bearing on the truth. It does however reveal that of those people surveyed, most believe the truth to be something other than the proposition that the US Government were responsible.
Wrong again, you either posted irrelevant information or did so thinking that it proved something relevant, which it didn't..
So you lose either way, as the poll is irrelevant.
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
Originally posted by: bionic chronicyou would get that pumping gas aye BC
negative affirmations. Look it up.
I though this was supposed to be about the debunking of the 911 "conspiracy theory". Personally I thought the linked website debunked it's own debunk. So 85% of Americans do not believe the American government was not involved. Does this mean that the majority of Americans do not support an independent reinvesigation of 911?
*edited 25 Aug 2010 13:10
...who cares if the dude does pumps gas??
What do you do for a living that allows you to feel so superior?
Originally posted by: Roy_Stewart
Wrong again, you either posted irrelevant information or did so thinking that it proved something relevant, which it didn't..
So you lose either way, as the poll is irrelevant.
FFS Roy, how many times do I have to tell you I posted the information about the opinion poll because seeka asked me to, not because I thought it was relevant, which it is by the way if you consider the wider question of "who believes what about 9/11"
Now then, lets imagine for a moment that the poll results were reveresed. 85% of people surveyed beleive the US Government were responsible.
What would this indicate to you?
Irrelevance or an overwhelming case for a criminal investigation to be opened?
or perhaps something entirely different.
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Wait For The Ricochet
Originally posted by: seeka
^^^
can't help but insult.
right, this is going nowhere, so i'm going to check the surf.
Hey, no fair. bc called you a git and you let it slide. I tell Roy to sharpen up and you start acting like his mother getting all "Play fair" on my a$$.
Besides, and correct me if I'm wrong here, Roy has been known to sling the odd insult about and I'm sure he's robust enough of a person to not let it bother him.
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Wait For The Ricochet
*edited 25 Aug 2010 14:39
Originally posted by: oldscoolOriginally posted by: Roy_Stewart
Wrong again, you either posted irrelevant information or did so thinking that it proved something relevant, which it didn't..
So you lose either way, as the poll is irrelevant.
FFS Roy, how many times do I have to tell you I posted the information about the opinion poll because seeka asked me to, not because I thought it was relevant, which it is by the way if you consider the wider question of "who believes what about 9/11"
You posted the statistic first, before seeka asked you to back it up. Either you posted it for no reason at all or because you thought that it's relevant to the question which it certainly isn't. Saying that it is relevant is an invalid appeal to popularity.
Now then, lets imagine for a moment that the poll results were reveresed. 85% of people surveyed beleive the US Government were responsible.
What would this indicate to you?
It would indicate nothing about the truth of what really happened.
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
*edited 25 Aug 2010 15:44
Originally posted by: Roy_Stewart
You posted the statistic first, before seeka asked you to back it up. Either you posted it for no reason at all or because you thought that it's relevant to the question which it certainly isn't. Saying that it is relevant is an invalid appeal to popularity.
There wasn't a question though and this was in no way a response to "the question". Maybe you can enlighten me as to what it is?
I posted a statement :
"Lighten up man, it's not that serious. You'll still believe what you want to regardless of what I think and besides theres still 85% of the worlds population left to convince."
The statement was aimed at seeka and telling him, (and this requires a bit of reading for greater meaning) that, although I'm not convinced, there are still plenty of people he can turn his attentions to.
The statement made no assertion as to being a measure of truth regarding 9/11, just that there's plenty of people left to convince.
It would indicate nothing about the truth of what really happened.
Exactly, although I doubt seeka would see it that way.
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Wait For The Ricochet
yeah bp and being a cable maker.
Well Mr Scab heres the story on that.....i was lying in bed and the mrs came in and said turn on the TV you wont believe it... the first plane had gone in but the second was yet to kamikaze...
when the second one hit we were debating wether it was a US job and we both agreed white people value thier own skins too much to run overt suicide missions (especially that spectacular), it was about then i commented on US foriegn policy and said "those are some big chickens coming home to roost"
yes sirree!
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www.heavywater.co.nz
Originally posted by: SNAP
does it influence anything at all knowing the stats for how many people think something.
the majority of young people think that justin bieber is amazing.
a lot of people think lady gaga is incedible
Beiber got voted in the top ten of the worlds sexiest men, Looking at him im in doubt wether hes hit puberty yet...
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www.heavywater.co.nz
If it where up to me he 'd never make it.
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Politics . . plenty of Hopium to go around .
*edited 25 Aug 2010 22:11
Originally posted by: oldscool
*edited 25 Aug 2010 15:44Originally posted by: Roy_Stewart
You posted the statistic first, before seeka asked you to back it up. Either you posted it for no reason at all or because you thought that it's relevant to the question which it certainly isn't. Saying that it is relevant is an invalid appeal to popularity.
There wasn't a question though and this was in no way a response to "the question". Maybe you can enlighten me as to what it is?
I posted a statement :
"Lighten up man, it's not that serious. You'll still believe what you want to regardless of what I think and besides theres still 85% of the worlds population left to convince."
The statement was aimed at seeka and telling him, (and this requires a bit of reading for greater meaning) that, although I'm not convinced, there are still plenty of people he can turn his attentions to.
The statement made no assertion as to being a measure of truth regarding 9/11, just that there's plenty of people left to convince.
It would indicate nothing about the truth of what really happened.
Exactly, although I doubt seeka would see it that way.
Reading 'for greater meaning' as you put it would suggest that you posted the statistic in order to make seeka feel that his opinion is suspect as it isn't shared by the majority. It's such a common tactic that it seemed likely ( in the absence of any other reasonable idea ) that it is what you were doing.
Or, perhaps you just felt that it's seeka's job to convince the entire world of an idea which you think is false ?
Re. lightening up, this is light relief compared with the grind I've been experiencing recently.
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
Originally posted by: Mr Statik
Well Mr Scab heres the story on that.....i was lying in bed and the mrs came in and said turn on the TV you wont believe it... the first plane had gone in but the second was yet to kamikaze...
when the second one hit we were debating wether it was a US job and we both agreed white people value thier own skins too much to run overt suicide missions (especially that spectacular), it was about then i commented on US foriegn policy and said "those are some big chickens coming home to roost"
yes sirree!
An amazing TV watching story.
It even has racism !
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
Cool Statik yeah i see no affect at all in my life ...could happen every week and i doubt much would change!
personally i was in thailand
went to this side of the road place for Tom yum soup
and the Tv is Blaring and replaying footage
and some touros are all glued to it
i asked
"mate can you turn it down or off ?"
and these touros go
"mate this is changing the world"
i asked when it happened dude goes
"6 days ago"
I laughed and said
"damn nothings changed for me"
i flew to india a week later
No Change
Flew to Sri Lanka 6 months later
No Change
flew to nz year later still
no change
to this day it has had no affect on anyone i know!
Us foreign policy made counterattacks inevitable and i hope more happen until the Us learns their lesson.
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In the world there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. Yet for attacking that which is hard and strong nothing can surpass it. Lao Tzu
*edited 26 Aug 2010 09:10
I'm reading a great bio on Bin Laden at the moment called "Holy War Inc" by Peter Bergen, wo is the middle east and terrison analyst for CNN.
A good read, and a fascinating insight.
Scab unless you are running a parallel universe for comparison it's impossible to say that there's been no change in your life due to 9/11.
If 9/11 hadn't happened you might have won lotto by now.
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
*edited 26 Aug 2010 22:41
Originally posted by: oldscool
Hey, no fair. bc called you a git and you let it slide. I tell Roy to sharpen up and you start acting like his mother getting all "Play fair" on my a$$.
drama 101..
actually os, i believe you are wrong yet again. i don't believe bc would call me a git., an old koot or relic maybe, but never git.
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: Scootertrash
Chomsky makes some good points for both sides of the debate but the decided will not hear anything... [youtube.com]
..fairly weak logic..apart from that i heard nothing.
Originally posted by: Scootertrash
Ron Paul Request for you Truthers [youtube.com]
and? sorry, missed your point on that one scooter.
Originally posted by: Scootertrash
Billy bob cigar guy chimes in too [youtube.com]
lol, "osama did it!"
orly cigar man? got some proof of your claim adulterer?
nup, didn't think so..cus there is none...foolish man.
what a waste of my precious broadband.
scooter, don't ever do that again...ever.
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XXIst sentry scribe
Sorry seeka
figured it would waste your time
so well worth it
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In the world there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. Yet for attacking that which is hard and strong nothing can surpass it. Lao Tzu
grrrr..
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XXIst sentry scribe
i do what i can 
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In the world there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. Yet for attacking that which is hard and strong nothing can surpass it. Lao Tzu
*slap*
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XXIst sentry scribe
the new world currency...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPrDeKLP5hk&feature=related [youtube.com]
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XXIst sentry scribe
i like the look of it
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In the world there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. Yet for attacking that which is hard and strong nothing can surpass it. Lao Tzu
Originally posted by: seeka
the new world currency...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPrDeKLP5hk&feature=related [youtube.com]
does it come in plastic form,them coins will way me down ...
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of course they'll be plastic jelly..metal is far to precious to turn into a worthless coin.
it does look good aye scooter, almost as good as the federal reserve's us$100,000 note and probably of equal value...naught.
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XXIst sentry scribe
i'm all for the new world order
if i'm to believe you conspiracy boffins
the NWO couldn't possibly be as bad as the current Masters
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In the world there is nothing more submissive and weak than water. Yet for attacking that which is hard and strong nothing can surpass it. Lao Tzu
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: Scootertrash
i'm all for the new world order
if i'm to believe you conspiracy boffins
the NWO couldn't possibly be as bad as the current Masters
Hello !
Anyone home ??
They ARE the current masters . ..
.
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Be Ye Perfect ! ..
Incorrect.
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Commodore Spud, Second in command to the Commander in Chief of the Sub 1000 armed forces. Sub 1000 committee secretary. Possibly the head of the Sub 1000 Secret Police. Former Surf.Co Official Rark Judge.
incorrect Spud, affirmative Roy
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: seeka
incorrect Spud, affirmative Roy
Incorrect.
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Commodore Spud, Second in command to the Commander in Chief of the Sub 1000 armed forces. Sub 1000 committee secretary. Possibly the head of the Sub 1000 Secret Police. Former Surf.Co Official Rark Judge.
ha ha ............ nothing much changes eh!
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www.heavywater.co.nz
yep just missing a few one-liners from that bad mannered newbie with no respect
well you can change your errant ways battery, just remember that back in 2010 (when there was no battery) things wuz running along just fine and dandy and exactly the same as they are now in 2012....
you have added nothing to the mix unfortunately
You are welcome here but you have to remember that you have no natural rights on surfco....
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www.heavywater.co.nz
Originally posted by: oldscoolOriginally posted by: seeka
*edited 17 Aug 2010 15:34
bogeyman...is that like a strawman oldscool?
i only ask because for the life of me i don't recall anyone ever mentioning a bogeyman was responsible for 911...apart from you.
i've heard all the bin laden ones, and still yet to see one iota of evidence that links bin laden and 911...other than bush saying so.
You really are a dopey fukker aren't you.
The only straws here are the ones you're clutching at.
My issue with lynic's post was to point out that this is the sort of rubbish that some people believe without even bothering to apply a few simple questions to the statement.
In this case the statement was "The buildings were designed to withstand the force of a 747 hitting them". Some people, and I suspect, you are among them, accepted that at face value and hold them up to be a "Conspiracy Fact"
Apply the simple questions "when were the buildings designed" and "when were Boeing 747's designed" and we find that the building were designed well before Boeing had designed the 747, therefore there was no way that this could be a true statement.
However we find a partial truth in here. The buildings were designed to withsatnd the impact of what was at that time the largest airliner in service, a Boeing 707, albeit the assumptionwas made that the plane would not be fully loaded and would be attempting not to impact the building.
Aircraft, Schmaircraft you say, what's the difference.
Quite a bit actually. The takeoff weight of a Boeing 707 is 116,000 kg, takeoff weight of a Boeing 767 (which is what actually hit the buildings) is 180,000kg. Let's see, that's 64,000 kg travelling at approximately 800kph that wasn't taken into account in the original design. Energy applied to the building is proportional to the square of the velocity, double the velocity, quadruple the energy.
So many of these "truths" take the form of "I heard of a guy who saw a report that showed it was the CIA that was behind it all being shredded and when he said something he mysteriously dissapeared"
The bogeyman, the NWO, shape shifting lizards, the forces of evil (roy's current favourite), the prince of darkness or the monster in the fukken wardrobe, call them what you will, but you seem to require "them" to exist to give validity to your sense of paranoia.
Me? I've got no problem with the "Conspiracy" being proved to be true. Hell, that would be freakin' awesome and it really appeals to my sense of anarchy.
But with dipsh1t statements like the one lynic posted I can't see it happening anytime soon.....
poetry....
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www.heavywater.co.nz
Originally posted by: Mr Statik
well you can change your errant ways battery, just remember that back in 2010 (when there was no battery) things wuz running along just fine and dandy and exactly the same as they are now in 2012....
you have added nothing to the mix unfortunately
You are welcome here but you have to remember that you have no natural rights on surfco....
Sorry you are right of course... I will tow the line and always show respect to those above me in the food chain, whether they deserve it or not, does not matter as there is a system in place, one must follow the formula.
how the hell did building 7 fall in 8seconds with only a small fire on the 3rd floor as the cause .
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Butterfly effect Jelly... someone here hit the return button on the keyboard to hard....
was he a Jew ?
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..
Another question .. does anybody think the US Government would have had it in them to do it.
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Politics . . plenty of Hopium to go around .
statik you should be strung up for bringing this back
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Originally posted by: robyonder
Another question .. does anybody think the US Government would have had it in them to do it.
thats been covered a few times PFS on here and other threads....
statik you should be strung up for bringing this back
had to be done mate, just shows nothing has changed in two years and I think we can all learn something from that
or....
Gosh a lawdy freshie, is yous suggestin' a lynchin? my my my....
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www.heavywater.co.nz
Originally posted by: jelly
how the hell did building 7 fall in 8seconds with only a small fire on the 3rd floor as the cause .
That's easy. Building 7 collapsed out of sympathy [youtube.com] for the other two buildings. The bit about cell phone guns from Verizon is rubbish though...
Originally posted by: seeka
*edited 24 Aug 2010 09:36
Originally posted by: oldscool
polled 16,063 people
16,063 hardly represents the worlds population ...and only 17 countries doesn't cut it either., basically you have invented a stat(85% of the worlds pop) to support your non argument.
wikipedia? nist? lol. rightio.
had time to study the FACTS in EVIDENCE yet? http://csi911.info/ [csi911.info]
Actually this is a very good site, that relys on science rather than conspiricy, coming at this from an open viewpoint, and reading a lot about it, I am starting to lean towards the views of Seeka and Roy on this particular issue.
i've said it before & i'l say it again. physics don't lie.
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: jelly
how the hell did building 7 fall in 8seconds with only a small fire on the 3rd floor as the cause .
bin ladens family are construction genuises. bin laden knew its achilles heel
Originally posted by: seeka
i've said it before & i'l say it again. physics don't lie.
You could tell the mainstream public that a B-52 bomber hit the side of the Pentagon and they wouldn't question it. Or why choose your own President or Prime Minister when you can let the mainstream media do it for you...
bin laden denied he had anything to do with it,..which is odd considering if he had done it then he would have been the first to claim it...but then a few moths later the world is shown a dodgy clip with dodgy editing with bin laden saying he did do it ..and after that it took 10 yrs to find him..how odd.
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XXIst sentry scribe
*months
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XXIst sentry scribe
i don't believe a commercial airliner hit the pentagon. i also don't believe that an airplane can hit a building at a few hundred miles an hr and have debris(parts of plane) come flying back outwards..that defies all logic and physics.
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XXIst sentry scribe
Originally posted by: PenaOriginally posted by: seeka
*edited 24 Aug 2010 09:36
Originally posted by: oldscool
polled 16,063 people
16,063 hardly represents the worlds population ...and only 17 countries doesn't cut it either., basically you have invented a stat(85% of the worlds pop) to support your non argument.
wikipedia? nist? lol. rightio.
had time to study the FACTS in EVIDENCE yet? http://csi911.info/ [csi911.info]
Actually this is a very good site, that relys on science rather than conspiricy, coming at this from an open viewpoint, and reading a lot about it, I am starting to lean towards the views of Seeka and Roy on this particular issue.
Well having initially been put off through meeting rabid conspiricy theorists, if you look strictly at the maths and physics, it does not add up, as to what really happened, no idea on that.
But it does pose a number of larger questions